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Nancy Ormsby Transcript of interview by Ina Bertrand 17 January 2001 - tape 1 (1hr 3mins)
Nancy Ormsby interviewed at Templestowe, 17 January 2001. So can we start asking you about your very early life When and where were you born? Yes, I was born at Brighton, Victoria on the 7 November, 1925, I was the youngest of nine children and my daddy died when I was five years old. And it wasn't very full and happy childhood. Um, I went to school at um, Hawkesburn Primary School and um, my mother remarried when I was eight years old and we sort of travelled around, there was many jobs, or homes and around available, and I was sort of pushed from pillar to post more or less, you know and um, I um, loved school, absolutely adored school. but I was kept away from school at different times, where we were um, and then when I was thirteen. Ah, we um, my family packed up home and just travelled the roads. Was that to do with the depression.? Yes. ah, All nine children? No, no, no, there was only three of us by this time. When I say three the others went at other places and put to work and you know the 12 and 13 year olds and um, yes, yes it was a very … I had an unhappy childhood really, um but mostly … . Mostly in the urban environment. No, we left, I was 13 when we left, 12, I would have been when I was taken away from school. I never went to schooling again after that. Um, I was so looking forward to going to High School at um, we just travelled the roads and went around the country. No home, just slept where you had … Terrible life, Terrible life many people wouldn't believe it. These days. Depression times … So, how did your family earn a living? Didn't So you were on sustenance? Just from charity of people travelling around giving us food. That's all we needed was food. Right. When did you start work yourself? And always stopped at a place in Gippsland called Jumbunna, and um, ah, an elder brother of mine, who was a few years older than me, he was working on farm in the area and the um, the lady who was the bosses wife, his bosses wife thought it was a dreadful thing for a 13 year girl to be living in these conditions, and um so she got me a job in a private hospital at Korumburra, so I was 13 years old when I went to work in this private hospital. What were you doing there? All sorts of work, all sorts of work um, housework, working in the wards, um, there was a scotch lady and her mother that ran this hospital. I used to be from 5 o'clock in the morning to all hours at night and cleaning the wards and er, taking meals to the patients and Is that where you were when the War broke out? Oh, yes, yes I was because my brother that was up in the country he was in what they called the militia in those days. I guess it is the Reserve Army now and ah, when War broke out. he was one of the first to go away and um, and then my family moved away and left me there, and then I went to another farm and lived and worked and then I went back to Melbourne and I lived with a sister at Clifton Hill and I worked in this cigarette paper factory and from there I joined the Women's Land Army. Did you try to join the … I tried to join the … I got older, I was 17 by this time and I had four brothers gone to the War and by this time one was a prisoner of war, the first one that went away was a prisoner of war in Germany, he was there until the end of the War and um, I felt that um, you know you just have to do something to help your country, do something for your country and also um, there were posters, around, and recruiting information all around, and so, um, and so that was when I joined the AWAS but I was too young. How did you go about joining the AWAS? where did you go? I went to Abercrombie House in the City, in the City of Melbourne, and um, filled forms and [not clear] and had a medical examination and ah, then I had to have a Birth Certificate. I didn't have a Birth Certificate. Really didn't have one? Or just didn't want them to see, because you were too young? No, I didn't have one. Didn't have one. Didn't have one. No. And um, anyway I finally had to get one. And then when I did get one, that's when they told me to um, wait and rejoin when I was 18 but in meantime I was anxious to do something for the War effort and the Land Army was the next best thing. When I say the next best thing, I mean there was recruiting, posters out and everything you know. And they would take you younger. 17, You could join at 17 but a lot of the girls went at 15 because they put their ages up. Did you have to produce a Birth Certificate for them? No. You had to have the same medical. Right. Medical test and um, and fill forms in of course etc and so. Did you need your parents permission? Yes, yes, yes but I was living with my sister at this time and she was my guardian and ah, she had to give permission but my brother-in-law didn't want to, and you could join for 12 months or the duration of the War. And I said I wanted to join for the duration of the War, and he said "No," so he signed me up for 12 months. When the 12 months ended um, you could rejoin which I did. Which I did, yes. So, what training did you have? I joined and Mont Park, um, Mental Hospital, they had a big farm there, nursery, dairy farm and um, still some of it there. Latrobe University has it now and um, went sort of worked in the nursery and the fields and the um dairy and um was only there for 3 weeks and then I was sent out on an assignment and … . Before you talk about the assignment tell us more about that 3 weeks. Did you live in? Yes. We lived in the nurses quarters. Lived in the nurses quarters and, and we had to study, we had to study seeds, plants and, a lot of the girls didn't have to do this because they went straight onto farms but um, yes we had to do that. Was this written sort of bookwork? Yes, yes and we had to assemble outside downstairs in the morning in the road and we used to have to march and work with the patients which was a little scary for young girls in those days, you know but you sort of got used to it after awhile. Some of the patients would be out in the fields and on the dairy farm, in the dairy sheds working, and they were so desperate for the girls to get out and work - the farmers were desperate for workers - but they were very apprehensive to accept girls, those girl, the farmers were to begin with and then I was sent from there, I became very friendly with 2 girls, and lived together in a room and we were parted and I was absolutely devastated, I was heart broken. I was assigned out on my own to a farm. And it was a vegetable farm down at Merricks on the Mornington Peninsula. And I was there for 6 weeks, for the season. Digging vegetables, grading potatoes, pulling up beetroot and all that sort of thing. The vegetables went to the factories, a lot of them for dehydration to send to the troops. Were there other Land Army girls there with you? No, I went on my own. That's when I was very, very lonely. Very, very lonely. So this was your first posting? This was my first posting. Did you feel you were adequately prepared for it? Not really. Steep learning curve? Yes. So, how did you learn? Um, ah, how did you learn to do the work? Well you were shown how to do the work. You just followed what you were told? Yes, followed what you were told what to do. You didn't make mistakes. Where did you live? At that particular house, home, farm I um, property I lived in the home, inside, in the house, in the farm house. Was that just a couple there? Yes, one lady, and a man. Did they have sons at the War? No, no children, they didn't have any children, no and apparently beforehand he used to employ local boys. Of course most of them had gone away to the War. And um, from there I went to Werribee, Werribee Research Farm and they trained girls there, and I had to learn to milk a cow there. Different girls said to me, "Whatever you do don't learn to milk a cow". I tried not to. They had a dummy cow, papier mache cow called Daisy and you had to sort of try milk that you know. This is hand milking? Hand milking yes, hand milking they didn't have um, machines. I was there for 2 weeks and then the Officer, Field Officer came to me one day and she said I was being sent to a dairy farm in Gippsland. Made it sound very nice - "Lots of little piglets and calves", it was springtime and so I was sent off to Morwell. And when I arrived in those days Morwell was very small country town and a very, just a platform in the wide open spaces. At the railway station I got out and I thought, "Dear God, what have I done to … ." When would this be? the middle of 1943? Ah, that would have been springtime. Springtime, Ok. So you joined the Land Army in May 1943? May, 1943. You had … .. I had 3 weeks at Mont Park, 3 weeks at Mont Park Then about 6 weeks... 6 Weeks Merricks. Then 2 weeks at Werribee. So it's got to be about September. September, yes, right. I remember it was springtime. Right. I met the boss and he was on the station to meet me and introduced himself and took me to this farm which was way, way out from nowhere. How did you travel? He had an old truck. An old farm truck. Right. On your own again? Yes, on my own again. Yes, and I went there and I had a little room attached to the back of the house. At the back of the house at this place it was. And um, there was a young lad, 16 year old lad there. He was working, he wasn't the family but he was working there and the boss had an interest in um, a lot of clearing, of um, bush country, there was thick bush country around and he was doing this. He had this timber business, cutting the trees down and all that sort of thing, so the lad and I more or less run the, run the dairy. You soon learnt, you soon learnt. But the lad was, did know what he was doing? Yes, he knew what he was doing. Yes. But they also had over a 100 stud pigs. We used to separate the milk in those days. The milk was separated and the milk, the cream would go to the factories and the milk would be fed to the pigs. After we finished milking the cows they were um, we had machines but you had to strip the cows in those days, which they don't do anymore and um, that means to empty the udder right out. You had to um, get up at 5 o'clock in the morning. and um. How did you wake? Oh, alarm clock. I had an alarm clock, and ah, I was always up in time, throw the old boots on and overalls, and … Did you eat first, or work first? No, no. Straight out? Straight out, yes. and um, you'd have a drink of warm milk, warm milkshake from the cow, that would keep you going. Did you have to bring the cows in? Yes, yes, yes we had to bring the cows in. Where from? From the paddocks, all down the paddocks, I used to go down and um, used to walk down to a very hilly spot where I was, this particular farm, it was a river, Morwell river, and they down used to be down beside the river a lot, the cows. And some of them would be at the … at milking time cows sort of know, you know, when it's milking time, and they usually start wandering, begin wandering up and there are always those few that never do. And I had a dog and I used to take the dog with me and run along and stand on the hill and call the cows and they'd come. They'd all come you see, but you had to make sure that you had every cow in, and you would put them in the yard. How many? Ah, there was between 70 to 90 at this particular farm. And um, when we milked the cows and um. Was this hand milking still? No it was er, machines, but we had to strip them afterwards. And um, as each cow was milked they'd go out sort of along a walk way out into the yard, out to paddocks and you see, and after the milking was finished we'd have to separate the milk and wash all the, the bails and the yard, they had a yard to come into before they went into the bails. You'd allow so many cows in at a time and we still had to wash all the bails and yards and when the separating was finished we'd carry all the milk to the pig styes. Big drums, big drums each one each hand, and it was heavy work, it was very, very heavy work and when we finished that we'd go to breakfast, which would be about 9 o'clock. We'd go into the house for breakfast, which would be about 9. You'd have breakfast and then we would go out in the to the um, I worked a lot on my own because this lad use to go and to do other things and um, do general farming work, fencing, mending the fences, ploughing, harrowing, harvesting and the boss used to bring us timber, that he used to cut in the bush down to the um, near the farm house, he had a saw, and sort of a power saw and I used to have to cut this wood. Cut these big logs up, do all sorts of farming, there was always work to do on the farm. What was your part in this? Were you driving tractors while other people worked machinery or were you actually on machinery? I was driving a tractor. Right Yes, I was driving a tractor, and drive horses of course with, there were horses in those days that used to do the ploughing and harrowing. Had you much experience with horses before? Never, never been near a horse. So how did you learn? Oh, you soon learn, they show you, they tell you what to do but you sort of just go off and learn yourself and more or less you teach yourself. How to harness a horse. They show you how to harness a horse, but then you learn yourself and you soon, you knew you had to do these things. Did you learn to ride? Yes, oh yes, I used to ride the horses. Mm, Mm, there was a nice little horse there I used to ride. Did you enjoy it? Yes, I did. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hard work, long hours. We were supposed to work 48 hours a week and um, on a dairy farm I mean 48 hours a week is just a no, no, you know, and um, I would work, as I say I would rise at 5 in the morning and um, apart from going into the house for breakfast and lunch and you would always have cooked meals of course each time. And you would have your evening meal after you finished the cows in the evening. And um … When would that be? Oh, you would be lucky to be in the house by say, 7.30 to 8, and um, I would go and have a shower and have my meal and go to bed. So that was working about 15 hours a day. Yes. How many days a week? Six days a week and Sundays I would milk the cows and feed the pigs in the morning and my mother at the time lived at Trafalgar, which was about 15, 16 miles - I could be wrong but around about that - and I used to ride a bike, my time between milkings was my own, and I used to ride a bike and it was hard going because in those days, they called it the Haunted Hills and you had to ride up these very steep hills, all bush it was. Ride my bike and have um, have midday dinner with my mother and family and then I would ride my bike back for milking in the evening. So more or less, 3 or 4 hours each morning and evening. Rest of the time was off. So that was about 6 hours off in a week. Yes, yes, that was, that was at this particular place. I knew I shouldn't be doing it, but I mean there was work and it had to be done. You, know … .. Were you fit? Yes, yes I was fit. Yes, yes I was fit. You don't look very large. You must have been very strong. Yeah, I was very small um, and used to have to um, get … the trucks used to bring wheat for the pigs and it would be stacked right up to, very, very, very high and of course I mean it was impossible to lift a bag of wheat and I used to have these hooks and I used to climb up the stacks and pull the top ones down sort of move them and pull them. Pull them down and um, sort of open them and empty some wheat out of them, and then if you would feel they were heavy enough to move then you would do that. Was the lad working with you big and strong? He used to have weekends off. He was big and strong, he was a normal 16 year old, size, not an overly big lad. So you were on your own on weekends? Yes, yes, oh the farmer, his wife used to come in and help me with the cows, help me with the milking, yes. She'd come in and help me with the milking. Were you being paid? Yes, I got 2 pound a week. No matter what you did, or what hours? No, 2 pound a week. 2 pound a week and your keep. Right. You didn't have to pay accommodation for food or - you wouldn't want to. Did the farmer pay that? The farmer paid that, yes, yes, he had to pay that. So what was your association with the Land Army, they provided you. They provided me with clothing. Right. Yes, uniforms, yes we wore uniforms, we had ah, we had a crown on our badge and you had to go where you were assigned. When you were assigned you had to go - you had no choice. You couldn't say, "No, I don't want to go there". You had to go and you had to stay. Were you given working clothes and as well as … . Yes, yes working clothes yes, yes. You had a dress uniform? We had a dress uniform, yes. Rather like a soldier's uniform … . It was very much the same as the um, the AWAS, the Army Women's Service. Right. Exactly the same. Same uniform and we had overalls. We were um, provided with um, khaki overalls and shirts and a heavy coat if it was raining. If you go out in the fields in heavy rain. And um, Were you provided with underwear? Yes, yes big bloomers. Right. Big, big bloomers. OK. Yes, so many a year. You know you would … Did anyone come out to check on you from the Land Army? No, not anytime where I was. Right. Some of them did because some of them were in hostels you see and they had girls in hostels, and they often say now you know "You girls who were on your own. We had a much better time than you." Because they had special hours to work and they had their weekends off and that sort of thing you know. They probably had social … .. Oh yes, Oh yes, they had social activities. They would, yes, because a lot of them were in the flax fields and but ah … .. It must have been a very lonely life? It was lonely, and then from Morwell I went to another farm at Nilma and um, I had um … No, it was at Morwell I had my 18th birthday, and I remember I was um, out in the paddocks cutting ferns. Bracken fern was a curse, we had to keep it cut down and I was cutting this bracken field, bracken ferns and they also had a lot of rabbits that were a pest. When I was cutting these ferns I had to take a ferret out with me and put it down the burrows and put the net over the burrows and when the rabbits would come out you would get the rabbits and you would ring their necks. I couldn't do it today and I was, I was a very shy girl, very, very shy, I never told the boss that I was 18, you know. I was crying my eyes out in this paddock, "Nobody loves me I'm all on my own". But er, yes. What did you mother do about that, then? Did you have something special on the Sunday when you visited her for your birthday? No, no, no. You had a roast dinner with her on a Sunday? On a Sunday, yes. Ate dinner with them. I was well fed at this place, um, , apart from one I wasn't, the food wasn't the best, yes. Plenty of it? At this place it was, yes. And from this farm I um, I was there for quite awhile, and um, I then I felt I would like a change. The local, people in the local area, sort of more or less adopted me. They would invite me to their homes. When did you have time to go to anyone? Sometimes of an evening. Right. Um, I would go for a couple of hours. Saturday night they had a little dance down in the local hall and I would go down there. And um, I became very friendly, they opened up their hearts to me. They called me "the Land Army girl up at Albrecht's farm". And um, from there I felt that um, and there was another Land Army girl came, while I was there. And ah, she only stayed 6 weeks, she said, "You work too hard here". She said, "I'm not putting up with this", so she requested a transfer and um, she said her mother needed her at home, so she got compensation leave. But then after sometime I requested a transfer and um, and I was asked why I wanted it, and I said I wanted a change but they didn't want to give it to me um, but I didn't tell them the hours I was working at first, but then I did, as I say I didn't sort of like to... Didn't like to complain. To complain, and um, so I did in the finish, and they spoke to the boss, and he said I wasn't working these hours, and I sort of got into a bit of trouble, not trouble but was told I was telling lies, but I wasn't. I said, "I'm not", but nobody come to see me, what I was doing or anything, you know. So finally, they did give me a transfer. Did someone else come to that farm? Yes, another girl came to that farm. Yes she came after I left. So where did you go next? I went to another dairy farm, at a place called Nilma, which was further … in Gippsland, but further down towards Warragul and I was on that farm for, I forget exactly how long there, I was there for awhile on my own there. Was this for months or years? Months, months, months. Was it very much like the other place or how was it different? No, there were no pigs there of course to … cos that was a big job, that was a big job and I didn't um, mostly just did the um, cows and just sort of chopping wood and filled my day in by doing chores around the farm, but not as heavy and, and I did get time off at the weekend, Saturday, Sundays, and then I … . Who did the cows if you had the Sunday off? I never had the full Sunday off, I used to still did the cows. You still had to work Ah, apparently I was one of the unlucky ones, did all this, but I did it, I would do anything I was told to do, and I never complained, you know, because some of the girls, now say "I would never have done that". But um, I did it and then requested, I met another Land Army girl. The farmers used to go to Warragul every market day once a week, and that was, I'd had time off then because they would take us into the, into Warragul for the day, between milkings, and the Land Army girls in the different areas, in the area from the different farms, we got to know each other, and we would met up, so I ah, one farm that um - dairy farm again - had a girl and he wanted another girl, so I put in for a transfer and I was able to get a transfer. And then I was with her and that was different. That was, it was … Not lonely anymore? No, not lonely, we had fun, we had some wonderful, wonderful, wonderful times, we are still very close friends. The work was still much the same? Yes, we, we more or less run the dairy on our own. Where was this? This was at Lardner, this was a place called Lardner. It was um, out of … the other side of Warragul. You ran it on your own? Well the boss, he um, he had a contract of cutting hay around the different farming areas and he used to employ a lot of other Land Army girls and men and go around doing these um, (there's a door blowing, yes). And um, he um, he was a bit of a gambler he used to wander off at different times to Melbourne, to the races and yes, but um. So the two of you managed the dairy completely? Yes, yes, yes and the outside work was just the harrowing which was a normal … and ploughing, normal farm work, cutting a few ferns there that were.. Were your hours much the same as in the first place? Ah, not as long. We did get up at 5 in the morning, because you had to have the milk ready for the men to be … drivers to come to collect the milk Did you have time in the middle of day sometimes? Oh, we never had time off. No, no, but there we had to sort of more or less um, get our own meals because the wife wasn't a very good cook and she was a very, she had three little children and um, ah, not a good housewife, and to get a decent meal we sort of would scratch and get things, you know cook things for ourselves. It's the quality of it though, but you were still well fed? Yes, yes, yes. Still plenty to eat? Plenty to eat, yes. OK. How long were you there? I was there, I forget exactly when I went, I didn't, I haven't got my record book which, is sad, but I was there until the end of the War. And you were happy there? Very happy. Tell me some of things that made you happy. Ah, well the camaraderie with the two of us and um, we'd go dancing. We'd go to dances, we'd get the local lads to take us to dances and we'd go to the balls and we'd go a long way, away, and sometimes we'd come home from these balls and um, change from our ball gowns into our overalls and go straight to the dairy. How did you travel when you went to these? Oh, the local lads used to drive us. But you always went as, in a pair. Oh, yes; oh yes, yes, oh yes we always went in a pair, yes we had a wonderful time. Yes, yes, we enjoyed that. It was our outlet, yes. Yes. What happened when the War ended? Well when the War ended, I came back to Melbourne and I lived with my sister at Prahran and I went back to my job at the cigarette paper factory at Clifton Hill because the manpower rules were that they had to keep your job for you, you see, and I went back there and I didn't stay very long because I was very unsettled in Melbourne. I wanted to get back to the country again And what was it that drew you back? I don't really know, I just couldn't settle in the closed area. I just seemed to like the wide open spaces and … You wouldn't to work outside? … the country area. No I didn't want to work outside, I would have done anything, I would have worked anywhere, where I could have got a job. And um, I went to a wedding, one weekend to um, Yallourn, which Yallourn was close to Morwell Bridge where I did work and I knew a lot of the people around the area. I did go to an occasional theatre, picture theatre, on occasion when I was at Morwell Bridge and some of the locals would take me and um, cos I got to know, many people, and I went to a wedding at Yallourn and it was people that was very old friends of my Daddy's, going back many years. And I stayed with them, for this weekend, and I happened to say "I'd love to come back up here". And um, the wife said to me, "Well why don't you come back?" And I said "I don't know what I want to do, I don't know where I'd work" And she said, "What about the hotel?" - the Yallourn Hotel, this was, and I said, "Oh, I don't know about that, I've never been in a hotel in my life". And um, she was a very good lady, and she had a very big family and all of her daughters had worked in the hotel, and of course in those days Yallourn Hotel was a very exclusive hotel, one of the most exclusive hotels outside of Melbourne. And um, she said um, "If you like", she said, "I'll take you over tomorrow before you get the train home". So she took me over and spoke to the Manageress whom she knew very well, because of her daughters had worked there and got married, yes so they gave me a job and I went back home to Melbourne and said to my sister, "I'm going back to Yallourn". And she said, "Why?" and I said, "I'm going to work at the hotel." And oh, she was horrified. Going back to the War time, itself - we'll come back to after the War later. During the War were you in contact at with ah, your brothers who were in the Forces? Yes, yes, yes. Were you writing letters? Oh yes, writing letters. Yes my brother in Prisoner of War camp, yes, Stalag 8 I'll always remember he was in, yes, I was always in contact with them. How often did you get letters? Not very often. Not very often How often did you write? Oh, I wrote a lot, I wrote, I wrote all the time. That, that was one of my outlets you know, I did a lot of letter writing in the evenings, yes. Only to those brothers, or to other members of the family? To my brothers and different friends that I had in Melbourne. How did you follow the progress of the War? Ah, radio, papers, I always … everywhere I went I always made sure that I had the daily paper everywhere I went. I was very interested of course. How did the daily paper get out to country areas and to farms? Which daily paper would you get? The Sun, the Sun News. Right. A day late? No, no it came up on the train, it didn't get up to late in the day time and of course the evening was the only time we ever had to read. That's what I did you know, after tea I'd read the paper, and write me letters and - as I say - it was time for bed, glad to get to bed. So, you knew roughly where your brothers were? No, no, no not all the time, you just knew that they were overseas and you wouldn't. How did you address mail to them? Ah, you would address to … well to my brother that was in the Germany, to Stalag Prisoner of War camp, and um, the others to their number and their the Battalion, and ah, I forget, I honestly forget exactly what, at sea, if it was at sea, or middle east or … … It was sent on to them? Yes, yes. Did you have to pay postage on those? Yes, yes. Wasn't very much. A penny I think, but often when you received letters - I sent more letters than I did receive - ah, because lots of times you did receive them they had pieces cut out because they had been censored, you just put some normal little thing in that was happening and you wouldn't speak about, you wouldn't write about War. And they wouldn't either. Cut out? Snipped out? Yes, snipped out. How often did that happen? Oh, often , often. Did you ever compare that with your brothers when they came home and ask "What was cut from there"? No, I didn't no I didn't. I mean you were so happy and after the War ended and it sort of wasn't discussed a lot. Did they all come back? Yes. Four brothers? Yes, yes. You were very lucky then. Yes, yes, yes, thank God, yes. Can you remember when they arrived home, what did you do? Um, ah, one of my brothers was um, repatriated because of his injuries and um, the other two came home, just after the War. And my brother from the Prisoner of War camp, he came home after the War. I'll remember that day forever. You know, that, that particular day, stands in my mind forever, yes. Describe it. He was due to come home, arrive home this day to Royal Park where a lot of the troops were arriving and he came by ship to Sydney and he was coming down by train and there were lots and lots of trains and my mother and I were in Royal Park early in the morning and we waited all day long. And um, we were um, looking for him, and he never came, and anyway to cut a long story short, he did arrive late in the afternoon, well just imagine the emotion. How did you celebrate? Well we didn't. Just took him home? Yes, we didn't, no celebration. No big celebrations. Can you remember the actual day the War ended? The day the War ended was the um, was the 15 August … That's one of them. You don't remember any great celebration of being … Oh yes, yes, yes when the War did, did end. As a matter of fact I was on … I was very, very fortunate I don't know how it happened, it was a coincidence, but I had um, I was on my leave, my 12 days, we got 12 days Annual Leave. Right. I was home in Melbourne and that was when the War ended. And I went into the City. Well it was just unbelievable! Describe it. Well, Melbourne as far as you could … there were people from one side of the street to the other, on the roads, no traffic of course to get through … And um, everyone was just so … celebrating and dancing, complete strangers everyone was just so jovial with everyone, and kissing and hugging and um, it was just so, so wonderful the whole day, it just went on all day, it was … Music? Oh music everywhere, people were playing music, whatever they had and there was a, there was a truck trying, I remember this truck trying to get down Flinders Street, people were jumping on and off and singing and um, and I remember at one stage I walked over Princes Bridge and um, everyone was singing the War songs oh, it was an absolutely unforgettable day. Unforgettable day, I was very fortunate to have been able to have been in Melbourne at that particular time. But I went back to the farm after. You were young a woman, you were only 20. Yes. Did you find the social, your social life curtailed by the fact that the men were all at the War? You said that the young lads took you to dances. Dances, yes. There were still young lads around? Well, well when I say the young lads, the local boys that came home on leave. Oh, right. Yes, the local boys would come home on leave, and people would say, "Oh, there's a nice Land Army girl up on Albrecht's farm". And um, they would come up and ask me if I would like to go to a dance, or go to the pictures, which I would. And ah, coincidence that one of them um, was with my husband on the Kokoda trail and they both got lost and badly wounded, and yes, I didn't know that until after the War and I was married. How did you meet your husband? I met my husband at Yallourn. He was … While you were working at the pub? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes he was repatriated from the War - a month before the War - he got, he was wounded, and as I say lost in the jungle, and um, and between he and his Company the Japanese were there and um, and this other young chap was with him. But I didn't know at that time because, they didn't speak about their experiences when they were on leave. You didn't hear anything. They didn't speak about it. And when I went to Yallourn my husband, my future husband, he worked there. He was very sick, he, he finished with a very bad chest complaint, bronchial asthma because he was found, he was found um, 12 days after he'd been in the jungle, and he had a head wound, and I meant him at the Yallourn hotel, and he was the first boyfriend I'd ever had. He was sick, but, I remember a lady saying to me - the cook at the hospice - "Do you realise what you're letting yourself in for?" And I said, "Why?" and she said "Do you know Chas is very ill", and I said, "No worries, no worries, I'll look after him". We were married 11 years, and he passed away. I had 3 little children. But um … . So you stopped work then when you married? Yes, yes, yes, yes because I got pregnant and yes … How did your Land Army time effect the rest of your life? You've already described how it brought you back to the country, back to Yallourn. Were there other things? It made me strong, I felt it made me, because I was a very shy introverted child, girl, young girl, I was as a child because I didn't have a very happy childhood. Not very out-going at all. I've never been a great out-going person. Anyway life then yes, well um, after the War I um, as I say, I settled down and married and I lived at Yallourn. I was very fond of the area, but as I say after my husband died, I had 3 little children. And you said that, the Land Army experience made you strong? Oh, yes, yes. How did that? Well I felt that I was, I felt that I was, I really felt that me … I was doing my part for the country, for the War effort. That's how it affected me. I was helping. So it gave you a better self concept then. Yes it did, I really did feel … .. A sense of achievement? A very great sense of achievement. I felt very happy within myself that I had done what I did. And it gave you life long friends too? Oh yes, yes, oh yes. Just Land Army people, or people that you worked with and for? No, other people that I worked with and met. And um, my old bosses that I did … they've all gone now. I did keep in contact with most of them. Do you think that it made you physically strong? Yes, yes, very much so, yes. Yes, it um, when I was at Mont Park, I fell down a flight of stairs, and hurt my back and um, very badly, and this, I'm suffering now of course as you get older, you know, but I … I hurt my back and um, very badly and I'm suffering now of course as you get older you know, but I, I plodded on, you do, you didn't, you didn't just because you had a headache or anything like that, you just kept working. I didn't have a sick day off. Were you able to use the skills that you learned, again in the rest of your life? Yes, I feel I did, sharing, and … but not actually the work I always had, always thought I would like to go back to the country, to the country area. And um, coincidence, I had 4 children and none of them went to the City area they except for the youngest one they lived in the country. Don't like the city life. You suggested that it helped you in your interest in helping other people too. Yes. How did that happen? Well, I felt that um, when I joined the Australian Women's Land Army, I just felt that I had to do something and help my country. When I say help my country, the country was desperate, the country was desperate for rural workers and you'd read about it in the papers, you'd see the posters, read the posters and you'd hear all of the news, and you'd think I've got to do something, I must, you just can't sit back and not. Did you ever feel that the Land Army was second best? Did you regret not having gone into the … No, no, no I didn't. No I didn't because I what I was doing, I was still, still doing my part, doing something for someone, I felt I was doing something not for me, it wasn't for me but it was for I guess the country, you know helping the boys. See, a lot of the farmers' sons and the young men went away from the farms, were taken away, they um, the farmers were very apprehensive taking these young girls a lot of them, were very much so, but they soon learnt. Where was the worst experience the whole of the time you were in the Land Army? The worst experience at work or? Yeah, anything. Well, I've never mentioned this to anybody, ever, ever before but there was a nasty experience with my boss, at Morwell, that's why I wanted to get away, yes. That doesn't surprise me, I think it must have been very hard for young girls out on their own for the first time like that Yes, because his wife went to hospital to have a baby, there were only two of us in the house. And um, he came into my bedroom and I was very young and naïve. That was the worst … . Right. What was the best thing that happened? The best thing was the camaraderie of having the … being with the girls and um, the happy times. You speak to any Land Army girl, they say, you know, their years in the Land Army were wonderful. After the War you were involved later on your life in various sort of social causes, work. Yes, yes well um, How was the Land Army experience connected to that? Well, I don't know if it was connected to Land Army. I just felt that, I just had that closeness of feeling, of doing something for someone else, and helping people. Less fortunate than me, whether it was because of my upbringing, um, I felt that um, that I just wanted to do something for somebody else. Describe that work. That I had done? Well, I began with um, ah, youth work when I, in the youth club, after I came out of the Land Army and went back to Yallourn and I became involved in the youth club, doing things for this Church group that it was. To begin with, then I got involved with … sort of, I had no qualifications, to you know, to, to tell people what to do it was just that sense of um, putting them on the right track and helping them. And then when I got married you know I went into the usual mother … kindergarten, clubs, mothers clubs, school clubs and with my husband I used to help him in his RSL work. And then, when I remarried, and I came to Melbourne, I remarried a Rat of Tobruk and I became very involved with that Association and RSL and hospital work and um, ah taking people to hospitals, the older people, and visiting them and helping them in all sorts of ways and young people who I … couples that I've, still doing things for other people you know that I've. I do voluntary work at the hospital and … . Ended up with a gold medal from the RSL. Yes. And that was for that kind of work? That was for the community work I did for the Veterans. Yes. And yet you weren't able to join the RSL until 1986? No, no we weren't, see, once the War was finished, the Land Army was forgotten. Completely forgotten. Nobody talked about it, you never ever talked about it to anybody. It was about to be made a Service Branch you said? There was legislation going through before the war ended, yes. But it didn't go through. No it didn't go through, the War ended and all the records were just destroyed. That's why we've had a lot of trouble, I think we've done very well, you know, finding a lot of these girls. But you had an Association, a Land Army Association? Yes, after the War ended, um, there was an Association, and um, it went on for a few, some years, and till the 1960's, and then most of us were young and got married, and had families and then it sort of fell away and just closed up. And then … a lot of the girls didn't want to be involved for some reason, and it was, you know, it was just, it was just, I stayed in close contact with some of my close friends that I did make during the Land Army … we'd kept together as friends. But Land Army was never mentioned, um it's amazing people even now didn't know what the Land Army was. And um, … . Then you revived it? Yes. There was a um, I was visiting my son at Beechworth this particular day and it was close to ANZAC Day, and he was reading the Age paper and he said to me, handed it to me and he said, "You may interested in this Mum". And cos I hadn't spoken to the children. The children knew I was in the Land Army but I never talked about it. And um, I read it, and it was a reunion, an Australia-wide reunion in Adelaide, it was the first one. And I said to him, "I'm going to that". Everybody was going and so I did. And um, I met a girl I met and she was the one, when I first in to Mont Park, and she was one of the girls I shared my … yes … And ah, there was a few Victorian girls there and I said to them one day, we were in a group sort of talking, and I said, "You know we should form an Association in Victoria", and one of them said, "Well, why don't you do something about it, Nan?" So I came back to Melbourne and contacted ANZAC House and asked if we could. And um, as Keith Rossi said to me um, Brigadier Keith Rossi, he said "We've been looking for you girls for years". And so we formed our Association then and asked if we were allowed to march in the ANZAC March and he said yes. So that was a very proud moment. So when did you start doing that? I think it was'87. Right. That was our first year. Right. And you've got a photo there haven't you with the banner? Yes, yes, yes. And have you marched every year since? Every year since, oh yes, that's, that's ah, the One Day of the Year for us. Yes. That's the city march? That's in the city, yes, yes. Our local RSL Epping I'm a life member there. We do have … We are involved with the march up there. But your numbers are declining you said? Yes, yes every year. Yes. Because of the age group and sickness … . Have you noticed changes in ANZAC Day, in the March? How do you feel about the children marching for instance? Well I think that um, they march … children march for their dads, their grandparents, um, I think that, well I think it's a good thing myself. Yes, I think of my own children, my children, my own grandchildren are very, very interested involved. I have a grandson, he's going overseas and he's made arrangements, he wants to go to Gallipoli on ANZAC Day. But they are very interested, um they have asked if they could march with me. I said "No, no you cannot march". I don't know if um, um, I think that it would be better if a group of children perhaps, if they had a separate section of children. Right, did you see the film Thanks Girls and Goodbye? Yes, yes, yes. How did you feel about that? Um, of course there wasn't much about it in um, I think it was all a bit political, in parts, yes. Did it represent your experience, though? No, not a great lot I don't think. Right, in what ways was it different? Um, because it was mostly NSW, um, cos they were different, when I say different they did all kinds of different work to us of course. Right. In lots of ways, some of the same work but yes um, ah I enjoyed it, it was good um, Sue Maslen and Sue Hardisty, they did a wonderful with making the film. I did enjoy it, because I did go to the premiere and I did have a copy of it. How do you feel about the title? Thanks Girls and Goodbye. Was that how you felt about it? Yes, definitely, yes, yes. The War had ended and now we don't need you any more. Yes, thanks girls goodbye, you've done your job, that's … we thank you for it and that's it. Yes I think that was really well titled. Alright, so after you, Thanks Girls and Goodbye how did people get back to normal? To the normal peace time life? Well as I mentioned that I couldn't settle in Melbourne, um. For some reason I don't know why, I just wanted to go back to the country, which I did and um, some of the girls as I mentioned they um, married their … bosses wives or they married neighbours, farmers, a lot of them were city girls and then they finished their … well they lived in the country, still do a lot of them. Was it easy to get back to that sort of life? Did you have, did people treat you differently? Well, not the normal person, other Services, still see Women's Services … you didn't do, weren't um, worthy of being recognised for the ah … to march that was, that was we were looked down upon there, we felt, you know , a bit under-privileged sort of thing you know. But in the communities where you'd worked, that wasn't so? Oh, no, no, no but on ANZAC Day, it was just a marvellous wonderful feeling. The people in the sidelines and it amazes me each year the people, young people, older people, a lot of young people, "Oh there's the Land Army Girls, ah these are the girls that worked very hard on the farms" and you'd often hear, an older voice come from a man, "Good on you, girls, we couldn't have done without you". It makes you feel ten foot tall, yes that's, those comments are wonderful. What services did the Land Army provide for you girls? Well they had the um, amenities van come and visit the outlying district farms, when we couldn't get to shops. And um … . What would you buy from them? Oh we would buy our cosmetics um, our health products, they would have sweets and cigarettes, if the girls smoked. Personal hygiene … Just at normal prices? At normal prices, yes, we paid the normal prices. No there was no rebate on them for us. And what other things did they did they provide? Ah, biscuits, little sort of … And the Land Army also looked after your boots? Yes, yes, we were allowed to have our boots repaired twice a year and um, anything you wore out you could apply for, new perhaps undies or, or shirts or overalls but it all depended how long you'd had them. Right. You know you couldn't get them every … . Were they sent out to you or did you have to go and collect them? Yes, yes, yes they were posted out to you. They'd get your size from you and post them out. Other services, what about medical or dental? No, no, no we paid for all that ourselves and yes … . But you were still only on 2 pounds a week? Yes, yes. You had to yes. So, you didn't save any money then? No, no impossible to save money. Yes, thank God we didn't get sick, or some of the girls did but you know perhaps they had appendicitis or some of the got injuries but they had to be repatriated out then and ah yes. Did the Land Army look after those sort of injuries, work injuries? Not that I'm aware of, cos what injuries I had, I just keep working.
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Victorians at War - Oral History Project